SamGeneral Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:14 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:14 AM What do you want to be changed? Balance the 4 cores around fighting each other and not BOS v Enclave or NCR v Legion Explanation of suggestion? Currently the server is forcing hostilities with all cores, which is fine. But I don't see how this is supposed to work when 2 of the 4 cores are balanced as powerhouses while the other two are just better militaries or 70 DR customs. NCR and Legion just get phased out by Enclave who just molly wops our best men because their enlisted get better shit than our NCOs and their HC and NCOs wear armor that turn our best guns into pea shooters. The Antimat is supposed to be the cream of the crop but when its taking 4-5-6 even 9 shots with healing it becomes impossible to do anything. Even on buffout, bitter drink, and stims we still can just be head popped with a gauss rifle. Cores are supposed to be balanced to fight one another but if we fight 1v1 with enclave we get pushed back to the outpost every time because they get so much PA that they can keep similar numbers to the NCR and rock of shit out of us because the PA meta is just too strong right now. This pipe dream that Enclave will focus BoS while NCR and Legion focus each other is just that, a pipe dream. Even in a skirmish with NCR, Legion, and Enclave. NCR base just becomes the fighting ground for a two front battle where we cannot push out because victory hill is constantly under control of an enemy (Which makes pushing out impossible without a stealth boy), and even when we mange to take it, we just get sniped from Nipton and pushed from the sides. It just makes the game extremely unfun and our main guns such as the browning or the Antimat cannot compete with the plasma gatlin or even the Enclave Gatling laser. Its not fun for an NCR trooper to be consistantly fighting all of these factions which we are not balanced around and the only thing we can rely on is that BoS isn''t good enough to be an oppressive force. Not only is this a buff post for NCR, But Legion as well. Our factions are meant to be large militaries who win over the others with numbers but on gmod this just isn't feasible. So I am asking for a buff for Legion and NCR to make them more competitive with factions like BOS and Enclave who rock the best vendors in the server bar none. How or why does this benefit the server? With the 4 cores always being at odds, 2 of the cores are always left severely behind in terms of gear and meta. As of right now the only balance to this is the fact the Brotherhood isn't ever as strong as it should or could be. Are there any workshop add-ons or content needed for this suggestion? N/A 1 24 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saucey5321 Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:18 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:18 AM yea 2 cores suck and 2 cores are the best in the server not rlly balanced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:19 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:19 AM enclave will always beat ncr and legion. it’s just a gear diff. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gronk Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:22 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:22 AM legion is fine 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderWolf Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:22 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:22 AM This is a VERY big take: For someone that's played both Enclave and NCR for Divide, as well as NCR and Legion for CGC, I like to believe it's VERY dependent on leadership and skill rather than "Balancing". One thing that COULD do is nerf vic hill by raising the rock to the point where sniping the entrance is almost impossible. But it's also the fact that I wouldn't know HOW it can be done. Nerf Gat Laser? Pissed off Enclave. Buff Antimat? Pissed off pretty much any other faction. And custom orders can only do so much, considering now I'd like to think the M24 Sniper that Marked Men have is possible almost as OP as the Antimat itself. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle skatebord Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:22 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:22 AM On 7/17/2023 at 8:19 PM, Jacoba said: enclave will always beat ncr and legion. it’s just a gear diff. Its almost like we could prevent that by mot giving enclave 6 high ends in their vendor literally 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamGeneral Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:23 AM Author Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:23 AM On 7/17/2023 at 9:19 PM, Jacoba said: enclave will always beat ncr and legion. it’s just a gear diff. This just isn't good balance, especially considering enclave is supposed to be small with good gear. But is just always competing with NCR and Legion numbers wise. Even at Enclaves strongest they were never a massive army they were a contingent like the Brotherhood. The NCR & Legion are countries with hundreds of thousands of people while enclave is just a remnants group 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eopsin Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:28 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:28 AM buff antimat to actually be anti-pa, give it PA percentage damage or a body multiplier that makes it an overall better gun but mostly better for PA. As it stands, it 3 shots vet legionary. It is a pretty good gun, but absolutely not worthy of the legendary status it has held for so long (talked to server council about this, they said "sounds like good idea, will talk about it in meeting" then never got back to me) give legion some slight buff because they are largely fine outside of some activity issues- make their strength banner better or something. Legion is mostly fine as they have a wide range of things (martini henry, mg42, ppsh (which is actually very good), super sledge, ballistic fist, and ofc their armor stats) Biggest issue is that enclave is balanced for BOS and NCR is balance for legion, but BOS has the curse of just not doing well in PVP and are also somewhat inactive (and constantly locked in combat with MEF hurray), so it ends up being, for the most part, enclave v ncr, ncr v legion, or enclave/legion v ncr (due to base locations, as sam said, it is more like a 2v1 than a 1v1v1) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eopsin Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:28 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:28 AM On 7/17/2023 at 8:22 PM, kyle skatebord said: Its almost like we could prevent that by mot giving enclave 6 high ends in their vendor literally 6 nearly 100 sets of PA per month... no longer event faction... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holymilk Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:30 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:30 AM (edited) I would love to focus Brotherhood 24/7 if they were as active as NCR and just let legion and ncr fight it out but really, its been Enclave V NCR these past couple days which stinks. even if you were to nerf enclave you gotta nerf the BOS even then Enclave isnt just fighting NCR since MEFgot 45dr muties out the ass and poop out PA while living next door to us. PLA is also a permanent enemy of Enclave. Same with unity (base 90 dr infantry muties) who are basically the strongest customs on the server fighting the Enclave. Edited July 18, 2023 at 01:34 AM by holymilk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eopsin Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:30 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:30 AM On 7/17/2023 at 8:22 PM, ThunderWolf said: considering now I'd like to think the M24 Sniper that Marked Men have is possible almost as OP as the Antimat itself. 1. Antimat is not OP, its like a B+/A- tier weapon (mostly due to the fact that the factions who have it have it in high rarity, which makes most guns pretty good) 2. M24 is like antimat-lite, it is faster but has less damage. Overall pretty similar, but more like an antimat/modded hybrid type weapon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eopsin Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:32 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:32 AM On 7/17/2023 at 8:30 PM, holymilk said: I would love to focus Brotherhood 24/7 if they were as active as NCR and just let legion and ncr fight it out but really, its been Enclave V NCR these past couple days which stinks. even if you were to nerf enclave you gotta nerf the BOS even then Enclave isnt just fighting NCR since MEF got 45dr muties out the ass and poop out PA while living next door to us. bsharps haunts us still 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:40 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:40 AM Antimat and henry are very good but 85DR is just fucking stupid for snipers it makes the henry 4 tap when henry 5 taps 90 dr in my opinion it is just to close to being 90dr which is meant to be one of a kind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eopsin Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:50 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:50 AM On 7/17/2023 at 8:40 PM, Torr said: Antimat and henry are very good but 85DR is just fucking stupid for snipers it makes the henry 4 tap when henry 5 taps 90 dr in my opinion it is just to close to being 90dr which is meant to be one of a kind. 85 dr and 90 dr are actually really different in terms of effective HP, what you are experiencing is the miracle of breakpoints. The henry probably puts an 85 dr user VERY low, while on a 90 DR user it probably does less overkill damage and is more exact. Breakpoints are just VERY important for balance, but it feels like they aren't considered very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truepatriot Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:56 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:56 AM buff ranger factons plz 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneak Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:57 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 01:57 AM On 7/17/2023 at 6:22 PM, gronk said: legion is fine Lol, It's not a gear difference its a skill difference, NCR has so many opportunities to kick the Enclaves/BOS' ass, for example: Browning, PA, Unlimited Mutant, Several Special Forces armor sets, Perception boosts... Now of course I think they do need a buff, but only towards PA units, AKA give their Antimats back their % towards PA Now if you look at the legion counterpart, sure they can defend themselves, but they ain't gonna win any major battles unless of course the difference is in skill rather than gear. Lets list the Legion weaponry: Henry (15 seconds total to kill Enclave Enlisted), MG (Nerfed, takes the majority of the ammo to kill something), Super Sledge/Ballistics fist (Both decent, sure, but it doesn't work if you cant get next to your target who's wielding a caster that 2 taps your DR, You'll have to hit their PA 2-3 times to win) .. Legion PA (Worse then other sets on the server but faster, Still wont save you if you are rocking a weapon that wont kill Enclave enlisted armor) We ain't even gonna talk about the worst custom order ever, the PPSH. Here's my suggestion for a fix, Give both the Henry and the Anti mat a % boost against PA and Mutants and give the Super sledge a similar boost.. Though the only issue with this proposal is there is no "NCR Anti Mat" The gun is universal with the factions that share the weapon, so casually balancing the cores is practically impossible unless some changes are implemented. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamGeneral Posted July 18, 2023 at 02:08 AM Author Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 02:08 AM On 7/17/2023 at 9:57 PM, Sneak said: Lol, It's not a gear difference its a skill difference, NCR has so many opportunities to kick the Enclaves/BOS' ass, for example: Browning, PA, Unlimited Mutant, Several Special Forces armor sets, Perception boosts... > Browning Even with buff its about the same tier as a Gatling laser, and we only get 2 a month > PA Salvaged PA is good, T-45 isn't great everyone knows this > Unlimited Mutant Requires VIP and you know as well as most, less than 10% of the faction will every play one because it requires VIP to use. Legion heavy cent is 100% better than having mutants. T-51B is better than having mutants because it can be fielded way more than any mutant armor could. > Several Special forces sets Bro 70 DR isn't "Special forces" dawg. PLA has 68 DR armors which is 312 HP while ranger armor or 70 DR is 333 HP. On top of 85 DR, not to mention factions like survivalist's, DR, Marked men, SoL, and many more use 70 DR as the standard set for their faction. 70 DR is not special forces. Its legit average for what a non PA faction uses. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Posted July 18, 2023 at 02:17 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 02:17 AM On 7/17/2023 at 9:08 PM, SamGeneral said: > Browning Even with buff its about the same tier as a Gatling laser, and we only get 2 a month > PA Salvaged PA is good, T-45 isn't great everyone knows this > Unlimited Mutant Requires VIP and you know as well as most, less than 10% of the faction will every play one because it requires VIP to use. Legion heavy cent is 100% better than having mutants. T-51B is better than having mutants because it can be fielded way more than any mutant armor could. > Several Special forces sets Bro 70 DR isn't "Special forces" dawg. PLA has 68 DR armors which is 312 HP while ranger armor or 70 DR is 333 HP. On top of 85 DR, not to mention factions like survivalist's, DR, Marked men, SoL, and many more use 70 DR as the standard set for their faction. 70 DR is not special forces. Its legit average for what a non PA faction uses. We get one heavy cent a month and mutant is two times as effective... about t-45 as a shock main it is true t-45 serves no point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Posted July 18, 2023 at 02:22 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 02:22 AM On 7/17/2023 at 8:50 PM, Eopsin said: 85 dr and 90 dr are actually really different in terms of effective HP, what you are experiencing is the miracle of breakpoints. The henry probably puts an 85 dr user VERY low, while on a 90 DR user it probably does less overkill damage and is more exact. Breakpoints are just VERY important for balance, but it feels like they aren't considered very often. This is a very fair point but still MRE's in just 80dr out heal henry martini which is uhh stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderWolf Posted July 18, 2023 at 02:44 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 02:44 AM (edited) On 7/17/2023 at 6:30 PM, Eopsin said: 1. Antimat is not OP, its like a B+/A- tier weapon (mostly due to the fact that the factions who have it have it in high rarity, which makes most guns pretty good) 2. M24 is like antimat-lite, it is faster but has less damage. Overall pretty similar, but more like an antimat/modded hybrid type weapon. you also have to take into account that Marked Men have the M24, are a staff faction, and they have high DR unlike any of the other cores, especially Enclave. For good reason. Lore wise, it's practically dumbed down to Former NCR and Legion pissed at everything due to the divide. Edited July 18, 2023 at 02:48 AM by ThunderWolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted July 18, 2023 at 02:55 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 02:55 AM On 7/17/2023 at 9:28 PM, Eopsin said: nearly 100 sets of PA per month... no longer event faction... you are just something else man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted July 18, 2023 at 03:02 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 03:02 AM On 7/17/2023 at 10:44 PM, ThunderWolf said: you also have to take into account that Marked Men have the M24, are a staff faction, and they have high DR unlike any of the other cores, especially Enclave. For good reason. Lore wise, it's practically dumbed down to Former NCR and Legion pissed at everything due to the divide. 1. We have 70dr like everyone else. 65dr enlisted. 2. We aren’t a staff faction 3. M24 is a public gun. Anyone can get it from GR 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmersonKing Posted July 18, 2023 at 03:38 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 03:38 AM Buy from khans - khan main 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderWolf Posted July 18, 2023 at 04:12 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 04:12 AM (edited) On 7/17/2023 at 8:02 PM, Jacoba said: 1. We have 70dr like everyone else. 65dr enlisted. 2. We aren’t a staff faction 3. M24 is a public gun. Anyone can get it from GR I know that, but I also know Marked Men HAVE a M24. And I was simply put under the impression Marked Men were staff faction but I frankly don't care whether they are or not so regardless that part aint my business. Also 70 dr, really? Bruh I fucking fought you several times on 2 cores and ya'll tanky as fuck. You better also be saying the 70 dr is also for the helmet or the server's broken. Edited July 18, 2023 at 04:13 AM by ThunderWolf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabraz Posted July 18, 2023 at 04:32 AM Share Posted July 18, 2023 at 04:32 AM On 7/17/2023 at 6:30 PM, holymilk said: I would love to focus Brotherhood 24/7 if they were as active as NCR and just let legion and ncr fight it out but really, its been Enclave V NCR these past couple days which stinks. even if you were to nerf enclave you gotta nerf the BOS even then Enclave isnt just fighting NCR since MEFgot 45dr muties out the ass and poop out PA while living next door to us. PLA is also a permanent enemy of Enclave. Same with unity (base 90 dr infantry muties) who are basically the strongest customs on the server fighting the Enclave. Well NCR are enemies with all those you listed except MEF (which is on and off), and even then in my time in MEF we still can push NCR to their base. so I don’t really see your point here. It further fuels the idea that NCR/Legion needs buffs or Pa factions need nerfs. NCR Literally can’t win a war if they called it, enclave have an egregiously strong PA and weapons. Literally y’all got an alien ray that 2 taps troopers and an enclave gat that can melt snipers from across the map. Why does NCR, a core, have weapons that are not better than enclave? Why doesn’t the browning, an expensive weapon to maintain, perform better than a mrgat or enclave gat. Why doesn’t a antimat perform better than the enclave ray gun. It’s literally a gear issue at this point. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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