GR & HARAXON Scamming-Meta-Staff abuse Player&Staff Report

[Commie]

What was the player's name?: 
Branch Manager Mafik Harrell (Haroxan)
Head Gunsmith Ethan Lugo (The Player)

 

What is your in-game name?:
Marshal Lauren Kellog
(reporting on behalf of Lt. Cadellius De Trafford)

Exact time this incident happened?:
10:14 PM CST 9/17/2024

Please describe the incident:
Around 3 days ago Cadellius looted a Shoulder Mounted MG frame. He kept it quiet, only 3 people knew about it besides him. We needed some more information on its worth and how much it would cost to craft. Lugo on discord said it sold for at least 682k+ at auction, and said it would be really expensive to craft and I should just sell it. I declined. After going back to get a screenshot of that today, Lugo has since edited the message of him saying how much it sold for.

Last night, 2 GR came over to Hellcat Base, Gunsmith Lugo and Branch Manager Harrell. They demanded that we sell the frame (that we never told them about ICly) and throughout the interaction OOCly and ICly bullied Cadellius into selling it after we flagged down, some examples being saying they would charge 300k for crafting it, threatening to ban Hellcats from GR,  physgunning him, and forcefully stash checking him (explained later.)

Cadellius denied he ever had it, since they have no IC knowledge of us having it, or even let alone WHO in the first place has it. Lugo ask to search his backpacks, and Cadellius agrees, fully knowing the frame isnt in his bags. Manager Harrell (Haraxon) then post Caddellius FULL STASH IN LOCAL IC CHAT that looks like it was PREPARED PRIOR TO THE INTERACTION. Manager Harrell (Haroxan) then starts to physgun both Cadellius and the person recording and later explained that " He has telepathy " so thats how he knew what was in his stash. Cadellius, says that he will sell it for what GR sold it for at auction, and says what he thinks it sold for at auction (380k). Haroxan then says that it sold for 285k, Lugo later admits that Haroxan actually didn't know what it sold for at auction since he wasn't there.

After negotiating the price to 15k above " auction " price, Cadellius is forced to sell the frame, under the threat of being banned from GR, and his stash being forcefully checked to pressure him even more since they had no IC knowledge. For a price not even close to the actual price that he demanded for it after being misled and scammed by Haroxan. This is by far, the weirdest interaction I have ever seen. The amount of OOC shit and staff abuse going on here is mind boggling. I want the frame returned to Cadellius, and GR to either prove they have IC knowledge of the frame existing in our possession & who was in possession of the frame or forget about it existing entirely. 
 

Please provide any evidence or proof of the incident:
https://youtu.be/67eIfpcJBys
https://imgur.com/a/BPMVIJc

Edited September 18, 2024 at 04:17 PM by Commie

[EtWaryRomana]

Lemme throw down some truth on this jawn, imma just speak my mind and all that. Never have I been reported for such acts other than this one time so I would LIKE to believe that my credibility as a player of this community will stand for SOMETHING. This "Editing" commie spoke of happened a few seconds after I sent the message to the guy because I genuinely did not know at that moment, so he's kinda reaching out for straws on that as you can see from seeing ANY screenshots from our convo. I also did have commie DM me on discord WITH A PICTURE OF THE FRAME IN GAME(which he deleted ofc) as well as having real IC knowledge of Hellcats geeking in my ear about it while I'm buying their frames LOL(ofc I didn't record it because I never thought this would be a staff issue). Not only do I not recall threatening to "ban them for not giving us the frame" I do recall making the claim "I'm not crafting a high end frame for 4k" as well as further merchant techniques further down the line saying things such as "Only we have the blueprint"(its in the loot pool so I was relying on the possibility that he didn't know that) and "Either we get the gun or you'll never see it built" focusing on the fact that I REFUSED to craft them pretty much a free high end (I made sure I was allowed to deny the service before I even claimed my stance). It was also OFFERED to them the "STARTING BID PRICE"(300k I'm pretty sure it was) and applied pressure(1000 speechcraft) to eventually coerce the Hellcat using IC INFO to do so, His bad decisions were ofc not my fault and when it would come down to the Command thingy haroxan used I believe it was meant to be a joke shown by the laughing and joking with haroxan picking him up with his physgun and shit like that. If the Hellcat officer REALLY wished not to sell the frame or wanted a better price he wouldn't have said a word to us  as we approached them that night and or negotiated for a even better price (which I would have entertained.)

Thats my 2 cents on the situation I see no reason to argue as I am very sure I am 100% in the right. I wish no punishment on anybody I just wish for this to be handled swiftly and justly as I understand hellcats is having some trouble. 

Edited September 18, 2024 at 03:58 PM by EtWaryRomana

[Macklemore]

On 9/18/2024 at 9:29 AM, Commie said:

Cadellius is forced to sell the frame

 

On 9/18/2024 at 9:29 AM, Commie said:

They demanded that we sell the frame

 

On 9/18/2024 at 9:29 AM, Commie said:

throughout the interaction OOCly and ICly bullied Cadellius into selling it

None of your clips show anything about demanding or forcing him to sell the frame.

On 9/18/2024 at 9:29 AM, Commie said:

some examples being saying they would charge 300k for crafting it

300k TO CRAFT A HIGHEND THAT WENT FOR 700K at the recent auction.
That is bullying how? LOL

[Commie]

On 9/18/2024 at 10:52 AM, EtWaryRomana said:

It was also OFFERED to them the "STARTING BID PRICE"(300k I'm pretty sure it was) 

You can literally hear in the video Haroxan say " it was 285k is what it sold for " 

The words " STARTING BID PRICE " were never even said. 
 

On 9/18/2024 at 10:52 AM, EtWaryRomana said:

Not only do I not recall threatening to "ban them for not giving us the frame" 

You can once again in the video, hear Haroxan say after Cadellius said he could just not sell it say " I could just ban you from GR " 

 

 

On 9/18/2024 at 10:52 AM, EtWaryRomana said:

as well as having real IC knowledge of Hellcats geeking in my ear about it while I'm buying their frames LOL(ofc I didn't record it because I never thought this would be a staff issue).

Funny how you cant recall all that other stuff (incorrectly btw), but manage to recall this very vaguely. I know all three of the people who knew, 2 never sold any frames to GR, 1 is Cadellius himself, he visits you often but knew not to say anything. You cant even recall what armor or what they looked like, but its happened! (Source: trust me bro)

 

On 9/18/2024 at 10:52 AM, EtWaryRomana said:

I also did have commie DM me on discord WITH A PICTURE OF THE FRAME IN GAME(which he deleted ofc)

I deleted it because I knew the screenshot might give out too much OOC information that I was afraid you guys might use (shocker that I was right!) 



 

[Commie]

On 9/18/2024 at 11:26 AM, Macklemore said:

 

 

None of your clips show anything about demanding or forcing him to sell the frame.

300k TO CRAFT A HIGHEND THAT WENT FOR 700K at the recent auction.
That is bullying how? LOL

I guess you forgot to watch the video were they are constantly saying " I WANT THAT FRAME, I WANT THE FRAME. " 

Also when they said they would ban us if we didn't sell them the frame for what it sold for at "auction" price. (which apparently according to them it sold for 285k at auction!) 

ALSO saying " You will never see that gun ever,  either you take the money we offer you or you dont ever get it. " 

Either way I'm not reporting them for bullying him into selling it, I'm reporting it for the numerous other nefarious shit they did.

[Macklemore]

On 9/18/2024 at 10:36 AM, Commie said:

I guess you forgot to watch the video were they are constantly saying " I WANT THAT FRAME, I WANT THE FRAME. "

Yes because them wanting the frame is forceful.

 

On 9/18/2024 at 10:36 AM, Commie said:

Also when they said they would ban us if we didn't sell them the frame for what it sold for at "auction" price. (which apparently according to them it sold for 285k at auction!) 

He says "I could just ban you from GR" after your guy says "I could be very petty right now." if there was no mention of being petty I highly doubt this would have even came up.

 

On 9/18/2024 at 10:36 AM, Commie said:

ALSO saying " You will never see that gun ever,  either you take the money we offer you or you dont ever get it. " 

You mean the people who can craft the gun won't craft you the gun that you refuse to sell or pay 300k to craft

Edited September 18, 2024 at 04:44 PM by Macklemore

[Spiegel]

How about Hellcat and GR become one massive faction 

[Commie]

On 9/18/2024 at 11:42 AM, Macklemore said:

 

 

You mean the people who can craft the gun won't craft you the gun that you refuse to sell or pay 300k to craft 

No... what " You will never see that gun ever,  either you take the money we offer you or you dont ever get it. " means is we take there money or they wont craft the gun at all..? are you okay bro..? also why are you still talking about something I am not even reporting them for..?

Edited September 18, 2024 at 04:48 PM by Commie

[Macklemore]

On 9/18/2024 at 10:46 AM, Commie said:

No... what " You will never see that gun ever,  either you take the money we offer you or you dont ever get it. " means is we take there money or they wont craft the gun at all..? are you okay bro..? 

Lugo offered you multiple times in your video to craft it for 300k

[Garrus]

[Commie]

On 9/18/2024 at 11:49 AM, Macklemore said:

Lugo offered you multiple times in your video to craft it for 300k

macklemore please stop talking your clearly didn't watch the whole video because when he says " take money or you dont get it "  is at the VERY END OF THE VIDEO. Its obvious they just kept escalating shit to try and bully him into selling it. First it was pay 300k, then it was you will NEVER see the gun crafted if you dont sell, then it was WE WILL BAN YOU FROM GR if you dont sell, in THAT ORDER. 

Please. Watch. The. Full. Video. 

[Macklemore]

On 9/18/2024 at 10:52 AM, Commie said:

macklemore please stop talking your clearly didn't watch the whole video because when he says " take money or you dont get it "  is at the VERY END OF THE VIDEO. Its obvious they just kept escalating shit to try and bully him into selling it. First it was pay 300k, then it was you will NEVER see the gun crafted if you dont sell, then it was WE WILL BAN YOU FROM GR if you dont sell, in THAT ORDER. 

Please. Watch. The. Full. Video. 

You may be special ed, after he insists on not selling it he says he'll go to GR for crafting AT WHICH POINT THEY SAY 300K. He calls it a scam, then lugo just tells him that no one else has the BP to craft it so he is not wrong in saying that "You will never see the gun crafted." As for "We will ban you from GR" once again comes after your guy brings up how "he can be really petty right now." Why even mention being petty about it?

[Danny Linguini]

Hello here are my takeaways from this situation. 

1. Haroxan was clearly pushing for the selling of the frame, however when he said "and I can ban you from GR" the tone of his voice was indicative that he was being sarcastic, though while I am in comms with Haroxan a lot I can tell the average player would not be able to so I can see why the Hellcat was hesistant in this situation to refuse the sale, In the future I would recommend denying the sale, and if GR decides to ban you from there sales (which they cannot do without SC approval) you let SC know and it gets resolved without this drama. 

2. If Lugo is to be believed and you did in fact send a picture of said frame to them in an IC setting then yes they would have knowledge you had this frame, the only issue I see here is the SC scanning you and posting in the chat, and while I feel Haroxan did not do this to intimidate, I still feel as though this was not the way to go about it and should never be use in an IC setting. This is how I also feel about the HC being Phys gunned around. 

3. GR can lie, I wouldn't classify it as scamming but they did undercut the price and not tell you the real value, then again they dont really have to tell you the real value it is GR they are not a nice corporate establishment with an HR team they are wasteland gun contractors and play by their own rules, I would say its on HC to figure out how much the weapon sold for if their goal is to try and get a similar amount and I don't feel that GR is obligated to tell you exactly how much they sold it for it is a sales strategy. If a cars Salemen told you "Your getting a great deal on this car its only 20k" when he sold the same car for 15k to another guy isnt really scamming but it is just the dirty world of sales.

4. The bullying tag is quite an intriguing one. I don't feel anyone was "bullied" in this situation outside of the /scan and the pshygunning these are just tactics used by sales reps to try and pressure you into a sale. At no point however did Haroxan threaten any OOC actions for the IC scenario, and I don't think at any point did this encounter escalate to "bullying", bullying would suggest some imbalance of power in the IC situation and there was no real imbalance here had HC refused GR would have had fuck all to do about it and any attempt to maliciously target HC after the encounter would have resulted in SC interference. Where I think the "bullying" idea could be valid though is the thoughts from HC that they were being intimated to sell this, this would in fact be bullying HOWEVER I again don't think that was the real intention of the members involved and instead was the perceived intention from the victim. 

Lastly my final thoughts on this report- While I feel Haroxan acted out of line here I don't think he came to Hellcats with any Malicious intentions, Lugo on the other hand really didn't do anything wrong except stand there and be complacent. SC should not be using scan command or physgunning players while having IC interactions with them unless and OOC situation occurs in between. I don't think this will result in any sort of demotion, a verbal warning is something that is needed and an explanation of why this went so wrong. I think in the end this entire situation needs to be reverted, the frame returned and the money reset to its original owners. While GR was crude in this encounter, and attempted to use several methods to get the frame for a lower price I dont see this as scamming, scamming is when you pay for something and dont receive it in return according to server guidelines, and in my eyes does not encompass misleading someone with pricing as said player has numerous other options to find this info including asking literally anyone who was at the auction. Unless Haroxan went to every single player who did partake and told them all to lie in some OOC way I do not see that as scamming.  

[w.i.ll.i.am]

[Commie]

On 9/18/2024 at 11:59 AM, Danny Linguini said:

2. If Lugo is to be believed and you did in fact send a picture of said frame to them in an IC setting then yes they would have knowledge you had this frame, the only issue I see here is the SC scanning you and posting in the chat, and while I feel Haroxan did not do this to intimidate, I still feel as though this was not the way to go about it and should never be use in an IC setting. This is how I also feel about the HC being Phys gunned around. 
 

Lugo did not have IC knowledge from a picture, I sent him a picture of the frame through discord DM's along with asking him how much it costed, not in a IC setting. GR in general should of have not known we had the frame in character, and the encounter never should of happened in the first place. But they stash checked Cadellius most likely before the encounter to confirm that he did have it due to how quick Haroxan was able to just copy and paste it while typing to him. 

The scamming issue is that Cadellius CLEARY SAID he would only sell it for what it sold at in auction, then Haroxan stated a bogus price of 285k and claimed that's what it sold for at auction. He didn't have the option to go and ask like you say because at that moment he was being pressured with the threat of being banned from GR and also if he didn't sell it now, they wouldn't take it later and they wouldn't craft it. The ban threat might of been sarcastic but at that moment he fully believed it due to the circumstances of how hard they were pushing for it he was forced to sell. I have seen much much looser things being called certain other things by SC. For example Legion willingly letting stealth boys walk out of there faction when discharging and it later being ruled a Defection. 

Either way, the amount of factors here that should of prevented the encounter and transaction from continuing or even happening in the first place is insane.

Edited September 18, 2024 at 05:20 PM by Commie

[Madden]

[Danny Linguini]

On 9/18/2024 at 1:19 PM, Commie said:

Lugo did not have IC knowledge from a picture, I sent him a picture of the frame through discord DM's along with asking him how much it costed, not in a IC setting. GR in general should of have not known we had the frame in character, and the encounter never should of happened in the first place. But they stash checked Cadellius most likely before the encounter to confirm that he did have it due to how quick Haroxan was able to just copy and paste it while typing to him. 

The scamming issue is that Cadellius CLEARY SAID he would only sell it for what it sold at in auction, then Haroxan stated a bogus price of 285k and claimed that's what it sold for at auction. He didn't have the option to go and ask like you say because at that moment he was being pressured with the threat of being banned from GR and also if he didn't sell it now, they wouldn't take it later and they wouldn't craft it. The ban threat might of been sarcastic but at that moment he fully believed it due to the circumstances of how hard they were pushing for it he was forced to sell. I have seen much much looser things being called certain other things by SC. For example Legion willingly letting stealth boys walk out of there faction when discharging and it later being ruled a Defection. 

Either way, the amount of factors here that should of prevented the encounter and transaction from continuing or even happening in the first place is insane.

Again this is why I stated "IF", the best thing for this situation is to revert it entirely. However this should be a lesson that you dont wait until somethings already happened to report it, if you thinks its fucky while its happening you let another SC know immediately. 

[Miilan]

Uh the whole tone of the video looked like they were joking I don't get why a player report was even made on both, this almost seems like a malicious report against Haroxan and Lugo seeing that you could have went too any other SC and get it resolved before posting this.
But at the end of the day I think the frame should be returned 

 

[Macklemore]

On 9/18/2024 at 11:19 AM, Commie said:

Lugo did not have IC knowledge from a picture, I sent him a picture of the frame through discord DM's along with asking him how much it costed, not in a IC setting. GR in general should of have not known we had the frame in character, and the encounter never should of happened in the first place. But they stash checked Cadellius most likely before the encounter to confirm that he did have it due to how quick Haroxan was able to just copy and paste it while typing to him. 

The scamming issue is that Cadellius CLEARY SAID he would only sell it for what it sold at in auction, then Haroxan stated a bogus price of 285k and claimed that's what it sold for at auction. He didn't have the option to go and ask like you say because at that moment he was being pressured with the threat of being banned from GR and also if he didn't sell it now, they wouldn't take it later and they wouldn't craft it. The ban threat might of been sarcastic but at that moment he fully believed it due to the circumstances of how hard they were pushing for it he was forced to sell. I have seen much much looser things being called certain other things by SC. For example Legion willingly letting stealth boys walk out of there faction when discharging and it later being ruled a Defection. 

Either way, the amount of factors here that should of prevented the encounter and transaction from continuing or even happening in the first place is insane.

3:27 of the video makes it sound a lot like the guy told Lugo and Lugo then went to GR HC about it.

[Commie]

On 9/18/2024 at 12:23 PM, Miilan said:

Uh the whole tone of the video looked like they were joking I don't get why a player report was even made on both, this almost seems like a malicious report against Haroxan and Lugo seeing that you could have went too any other SC and get it resolved before posting this.
But at the end of the day I think the frame should be returned 

 

I was given the go-ahead by a member of SC to post the report after explaining the situation to him, I made a report because I wanted all the information to be in one place and not have to go through rounds of discussion and a game of telephone through SC.

[Commie]

On 9/18/2024 at 12:30 PM, Macklemore said:

3:27 of the video makes it sound a lot like the guy told Lugo and Lugo then went to GR HC about it.

Its because he knew that I told Lugo about it oocly. 

Edited September 18, 2024 at 05:33 PM by Commie

[GhoulsEye]

Accepted
The situation will be reverted the money given back to GR along with the frame given back to Hellcats.
Now as for the punishment Haroxan will be receiving a week ban for the abuse of his power