(Suggestion) Outcast Balance

[Kaz]

What do you want to be changed?

This would normally be called a nerf. But I prefer to call it a rebalance as me and a lot of other people are don't think the transition from "West-tek" to "Outcasts" Specifically looking at there Tesla RCW (that doesn't require broad shoulders like most guns of that caliber do) and there gauss gat which I understand is restricted by stock and to HC but as the server goes (however long it goes) that will quickly spiral out of control.

Explanation of suggestion?

I have heard a lot of excuses for there ability and power. I will mention the ones that i've heard and say why they dont make sense. 
Before I start. I wanna point out West-tek was a research faction. Thats why they had the bonus. Outcasts is PVP faction. For them to have the same gear BUT better is insane.
First while talking to Payne about this (outcast HC) He said one of the reasons for there overpoweredniss is because that they (I imagine he meant the people that paid in for west-tek) Paid a lot of money for it and at the start of the server's creation. This makes no sense to me as ALL custom factions have paid money to be where they are. And I was told USAR has payed even more then them (not to say they aren't strong as well but just not as strong as Outcasts) So saying that they can be that strong just because they paid doesn't make any sense. Everyone has paid there way. And 90% of customs aren't as strong.
Another excuse I heard for there placement (and this is to do with what a lot of people are annoyed about) They are allied with main BOS. Now everyone has complained about this and Payne excused it as BOS "needing" an ally. Well it is not the servers fault they are like this. Relations are a part of the game. Either you are good at it or not. This was the same excuse that was used in 2.0. Still makes no sense. If they bent so easily to outcasts why arent they just one faction?
Another excuse heard "have you seen how OP cores are?" This may be the worst one of all. Customs and cores should not be compared. Simple as.
Lastly as this has gone one already too long. The transition from "West-tek" to "Outcasts" was just one big buff to them. First of all I have seen it said that "Westk-Tek" had a flag up cap? Gone for outcasts for some reason. Even though the same gear is still OP. Now in the past it has cost MORE money to convert one faction to another. I know first had that it cost USAR A LOT of real money to transfer from WL to USAR. More than $750 (and in total over a GRAND). Now of course I dont know the dealings of whatever it cost (although the theory is that it was nothing as Payne is SC) and if that was true that would be outrageous as they have gained so much more in becoming outcasts. A whole new base and tech recycler and a robo brain WL, just for starters. But if it truly was just the initial payment for "West-tek" that is unfair to EVERYONE who ever put a single cent in the server.
Oh and very last thing. The Outcast leader said yesterday that if the Tesla RCW was nerfed the person who paid for it would charge back. Hopefully that was a joke but that has been done in the past? Where are gunners now?
I can go on to talk more about this and will if this gets denied. All I want is for SC to look over Outcasts again and see if they can level it out a little more before moving forward. 
UPDATE: Outcasts assisted NCR in a war. They have Ghouls and Mutants in there ranks. Outcasts is a custom and so can do whatever they want. But im tired of there poor excuses. They dont care about rp or the codex. NO EXCUSES LADS!

How or why does this benefit the server?

As mentioned this is what is fair for everyone. Everyone has paid money for there customs. And you can't come to me and say something like "COA" is the same as "Outcasts"
All I ask is to go over outcasts again. And make the adjustments to the gear now that the faction is no longer player capped. "West-tek" was seen as an OP faction but since it was capped and a research faction. Nobody cared. Outcasts IS a PVP faction. There is no denying that. The same rules cant be applied. The people make the server. If it was just a server with 5 SC members you wouldn't find it too fun I imagine.

Are there any workshop add-ons or content needed for this suggestion?

No

Edited May 19, 2024 at 12:05 PM by Kaz

[Hoxton]

As someone who plays unity a decent amount I can say that outcats are harder to fight than bos, I dont know everyone’s DR or wepaons they’re using im just giving my 2 cents, but a custom faction shouldnt be stronger than a core one if this is the case

It could be another legion situation where you’re only fighting higher ranks and you see an enlisted once in a blue moon which makes it look like they’re stronger than they actually are

Edited May 18, 2024 at 05:53 PM by Hoxton

[Spud]

You point out that it's BOS' own fault cus they made their own relations - which is true. But then complain that Outcasts also make their own relations? cry central holy burger ....

 

 

Also Payne isn't fac lead of Outcasts.  He's just HC, Charles is fac lead, and Charles has been FRP biggest spender for years now. Money is not gonna be an issue for him.

Edited May 18, 2024 at 05:42 PM by Spud

[Fearsome]

My gun does over 40 dmg a shot cause I payed for it   Money > Balance

[Shepherd]

On 5/18/2024 at 1:37 PM, Spud said:

You point out that it's BOS' own fault cus they made their own relations - which is true. But then complain that Outcasts also make their own relations? cry central holy burger ....

 

 

Also Payne isn't fac lead of Outcasts.  He's just HC, Charles is fac lead, and Charles has been FRP biggest spender for years now. Money is not gonna be an issue for him.

Uh, Paynes HC, Charles is Owner, Haroxan is FL

[Haroxan]

You must've been drunk to think what I said in our discussion yesterday was serious, Dark wouldn't chargeback in any situation. Also our vendor has already been touched. idk man seems like cope

[Kaz]

On 5/18/2024 at 6:59 PM, Haroxan said:

You must've been drunk to think what I said in our discussion yesterday was serious, Dark wouldn't chargeback in any situation. Also our vendor has already been touched. idk man seems like cope

Fingers crossed you're right. And I believe you but you gotta understand. People have done in the past yknow?

[Unity]

Outcasts should not be a Custom faction but a BOS mutiny whitelist

[Spud]

On 5/18/2024 at 6:56 PM, Shepherd said:

Uh, Paynes HC, Charles is Owner, Haroxan is FL

same difference!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rotten]

 

Hmmmmm i wonder why Outcasts are Overpowered...... 

[Imlordtrix]

I came here to find someone saying cope and found it so quickly lmao

[CAM]

On 5/18/2024 at 4:25 PM, Eopsin said:

FORCEFULLY CONVERT THEM!!!! RAHHHH!!! THEY HAVE NO REASON TO BE HERE!!!!!

Haters, haters all around who will make up anything they can think of to justify getting rid of a faction that has any level of impact on the server landscape, which for many months now has been the exact same meta and relations that lead to stale gameplay and people leaving the server.

 

Outcasts, upon release, I will agree, were kinda OP. They got gear they shouldn't have received, even for the stuff they lost in the conversion, such as VB-02s at a favorable stock. Staff Council pretty immediately got on this and

-Nerfed some guns (both in the conversion and directly after)

-Removed some items from Outcast vendor

-Nerfed the Outcast tech recycler (later decided to be a bit harsh, so now new items are in it. It is on par with pretty much every custom tech recycler now.)

-Raised Outcast vendor prices on remaining items

-Lowered stocks

-Nerfed Outcast armors

 

What people are experiencing is fighting a faction with a fair vendor that has plans in place, that has good PvPers, and that has made an impact. I did predict that there would be a sea of hate for Outcasts after the Unity war. 

As for the assertion in this post that the Outcast vendor is anywhere near as strong as the BOS vendor, you are just wrong. The Outcast vendor is inarguably worse. BOS can field significantly more weapons and PA at far better prices, and has access to some truly amazing weapons (superior gat lasers, tesla cannons, mr gat, etc) as well as, generally, better stats. I think the only exception to the better stats, and I could be wrong, is that Outcasts has T-51 that is two percent faster. At the cost of getting a tiny, expensive stock.

 

I believe that most of the time people are fighting people who are skilled fighters with our highest end gear, as while it wasn't the goal, Outcasts right now is a flag up faction. We don't have consistent activity. This results in fighting the faction, basically, on our terms. We get to flag up with all the PA we can, all the gear we have, etc.

Weapons like the Superior Modded Mini from GR auction have provided us with a significant power boost, same with some of our guys being huge grinders and grinding out well over half a million caps in about two weeks, which is super impressive. This allowed us to buy out our vendor day one, just barely, which also provided a boost.

 

Outcasts have been quite openly harassed from the day the conversion became official and folks were able to be whitelisted (when we didn't even have our vendor set up), and I think that the idea that Outcasts is some super faction comes from the same people who spend 6 hours a day in the Outcast base waiting to kidnap anyone they can- it is just a game of telephone where stats and impact get inflated.

 

As for balance in terms of our relations, which for some reason was touched on here, I know for a fact the original plan with the BOS was to either make them adopt the codex of the Outcasts (and thus be a friendly chapter), or fail to adopt it, and be sworn enemies. They, in a very unexpected move, actually adopted our codex and changed their relations around quite substantially, resulting in a, in my opinion, more interesting server landscape. Cores actually following a mission and having clear RP rules and goals is always more interesting than everyone abandoning everything to get as many allies as possible. 

Outcasts has, objectively, no natural allies. BOS is not a natural ally, but they became a friend (not ally) through RP and abiding by our terms. Outcasts actually has only one less faction below liked than Marked Men. That means Outcasts are disliked/outright hostile with, just about, the same amount of the server as marked men. Marked men have much more people disliked, while Outcasts has eleven factions listed as hostile due to our strict adherence to our ideals. 

Also, side note, the whole "research faction!!" stuff is BS. It has always been used as a blanket term to make whatever changes SC/B-team deem necessary to a faction without many questions. 

Basically, I don't think Outcasts need a nerf. I think the server needs to settle in to a groove with a change of RP scenery, and people will learn to appreciate things much more, and maybe we will see larger scale changes in how alliances look. I don't think the existence of Outcasts as they are does any harm to the server whatsoever, while nerfing Outcasts further would show that there really is no reward to trying new things or encouraging RP- Outcasts are already a weaker faction than West-Tek. 

You suggest outcast bring new relationship between factions. But it really hasn't it only made the sides more uneven. Before outcast, It was legion, bos, wbos fighting all the good guys. Which both factions at time were not super active so wbos had to fight all the good guys to keep the server going. Now outcast in the mix you take bos out and added a another factions to the good guy side. I will say legion has picked up in activity and I'm waiting for the same from unity or other bad guys faction. The bad guys factions are couple bad days away from just giving up and the server will die because of the unbalanced sides.

[Scottsman]

Hee hee hee haw

[Scottsman]

[Shepherd]

On 5/19/2024 at 12:14 AM, Eopsin said:

You either don't play the server very much or don't pay attention to be making this sort of judgement on how Outcasts have shaken up the political standings of factions.

No

On 5/18/2024 at 5:25 PM, Eopsin said:

-Nerfed some guns (both in the conversion and directly after)

-Removed some items from Outcast vendor

-Nerfed the Outcast tech recycler (later decided to be a bit harsh, so now new items are in it. It is on par with pretty much every custom tech recycler now.)

-Raised Outcast vendor prices on remaining items

-Lowered stocks

-Nerfed Outcast armors

No

[CAM]

On 5/18/2024 at 11:14 PM, Eopsin said:

You either don't play the server very much or don't pay attention to be making this sort of judgement on how Outcasts have shaken up the political standings of factions.

I'm on everyday. They took part in a war today. What side did they pick? Oh right NCR with BOS which is working for the good guys side. Which was a 2v4 war making your point invalid. Outcast mostly fights wbos sense untiy is not around to fight. Which last time I checked most people are fighting wbos anyways. I'm not seeing these "relations changes" they speak of other then the day to day

[CAM]

If outcast was fighting other factions like TT for example. I would br more inclined to agree. Makes sense as they abuse tech and have high technology I think they are only hostile agints wbos anyways that would shake more things up currently 

[Solarr]

On 5/19/2024 at 1:57 AM, Eopsin said:

did you know they are actually hostile with TT? like both factions are actually hostile with eachother?

also, they are hostile with a huge list of factions. Outcasts is hostile with a total of 11 factions. Out of 23.

you just don't know what you are talking about lol

 

 

Edit: I do want to say, I know you are a WBOS player, cam, so you kinda get the short end of the stick when it comes to relations. Unfortunately, that is the choice of WBOS command/owner.

Outcasts actually came to WBOS day one/two to talk, and one of the first things that was said by the WBOS command there was they had no codex and also they weren't very interested in our offer at all.

Outcasts... The exiles from Brotherhood of Steel, who work with the Brotherhood of Steel. What sort of compromised, idiotic, and nonsensical relation/roleplay is that?

[CAM]

On 5/19/2024 at 12:57 AM, Eopsin said:

did you know they are actually hostile with TT? like both factions are actually hostile with eachother?

also, they are hostile with a huge list of factions. Outcasts is hostile with a total of 11 factions. Out of 23.

you just don't know what you are talking about lol

 

 

Edit: I do want to say, I know you are a WBOS player, cam, so you kinda get the short end of the stick when it comes to relations. Unfortunately, that is the choice of WBOS command/owner.

Outcasts actually came to WBOS day one/two to talk, and one of the first things that was said by the WBOS command there was they had no codex and also they weren't very interested in our offer at all.

Off topic: Yeah that was me, I completed the codex the same day. The owners at the time were in the process of selling the faction at the time and never made a new one when we switched to wbos. We were gonna go hostile regardless because we felt cheated that Outcasts showed up and was handed the base when we were told we were getting it

 

Fair enough on the relations I don't know outcast relations only the factions I've seen yall Raid. With current relations of the server being on the good guy or bad guy side, outcast are working more with the good side. I'm aware outcast amoral. 

With oucast on that side with 8 out of 10 members of the factions are using Tesla rcw that does alot of damage and what I've seen shred mutants and pa at any range. Which I'm just guessing isn't a high-end weapon for yall. I think at the very lest the rcw should have another nerf of some kind 

[bonk]

On 5/19/2024 at 1:12 AM, CAM said:

If outcast was fighting other factions like TT for example. I would br more inclined to agree. Makes sense as they abuse tech and have high technology I think they are only hostile agints wbos anyways that would shake more things up currently 

bruh if you were ACTUALLY on everyday you owuld know we fight shit like PF, Marked Men, Unity and Talon aswell, its just that we LOVE crushing steel infidels when they join dat raid

[Kaz]

On 5/18/2024 at 10:25 PM, Eopsin said:

Outcasts has, objectively, no natural allies. BOS is not a natural ally, but they became a friend (not ally) through RP and abiding by our terms.

You guys assisted NCR yesterday in a war. They have GHOULS and MUTANTS. You guys are a custom and can do what you want but. You have 0 excuses anymore. No codex. No RP

[bonk]

On 5/19/2024 at 8:03 AM, Kaz said:

You guys assisted NCR yesterday in a war. They have GHOULS and MUTANTS. You guys are a custom and can do what you want but. You have 0 excuses anymore. No codex. No RP

i didnt’t recall seeing mutanta nor ghouls in yesterdays war, so

[Kaz]

On 5/19/2024 at 1:05 PM, bonk said:

i didnt’t recall seeing mutanta nor ghouls in yesterdays war, so

Must have been wearing blindfolds

[bonk]

On 5/19/2024 at 8:11 AM, Kaz said:

Must have been wearing blindfolds

the fact that you say there are literally ghouls in the ncr is suprising, ive been on my ncr almost constantly for the past 2 weeks and never have seen any ghouls LOL

[Kaz]

On 5/19/2024 at 1:15 PM, bonk said:

the fact that you say there are literally ghouls in the ncr is suprising, ive been on my ncr almost constantly for the past 2 weeks and never have seen any ghouls LOL

But what about mutants LOL